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  Old  July 31st, 2009, 10:54pm     #1
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("God" says) Don't Eat Scavengers & U Won't Get Sick?
I'm really not trying to start a big religion thread here, but as I was casually flipping channels last night, stopped on a program which typically features an older preacher sitting at his desk quietly going over Bible verses and teaching from them.

This night he was going over some letters folks had written. One question asked was "Why don't we always get healed when we pray to God to do so?"

I could imagine any number of answers as to why we don't always get what we ask or hope for, but instead this reverend went into an area I had not specifically heard.

Paraphrasing his words to some extent, he said, "God has told us NOT to eat scavengers. God knows we're not supposed to eat them, so naturally when we disobey and go ahead and eat scavengers ANYWAY, people are going to get sick."

I sat there scratching my head -- Because I'd heard of the Jewish concepts of eating no pork or shellfish or food from animals with cloven hooves (I think I got that right) but I don't remember anything said about "scavengers" per se.

The only scavengers I could bring to mind are hyenas, vultures and catfish, and the latter is the only food most people in our world are likely too eat.

Anyway I know of a LOT of people who get sick and very few of them are likely to serve Hyena Fillets or Vulture Stew to their families, even on special holiday occasions, lol.

Anyone have an idea where this guy came up with the "scavenger" idea? Is there anything written in Jewish or Christian texts which offers this as an explanation for poor health?

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  Old  July 31st, 2009, 11:48pm     #2
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There's nothing directly in the bible that says "Don't eat scavengers", but in Leviticus 11 there's a big list of prohibited animals which do include a lot of scavenging creatures (including the vulture, rat, raven and gull mentioned by name).

As for Vulture Burgers... If you're in the desert and they're flying around, a good shot with a sling would take one down and be quite a meal. Not to modern tastes, but people ate them 2,000 years ago and tended to get sick from it. A lot of the prohibitions on food (especially in the Torah) are for health and hygiene reasons - don't mix certain things, don't eat certain animals. It's less of an issue in modern times due to pasturisation and refrigeration, but they're still very relevant in some places (apart from the obvious religious validity).
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  Old  July 31st, 2009, 11:48pm     #3
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Come on, I can't believe NOBODY on this board knows anything about eating scavengers. What's OLS coming to?

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  Old  August 1st, 2009, 12:03am     #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denarius View Post
There's nothing directly in the bible that says "Don't eat scavengers", but in Leviticus 11 there's a big list of prohibited animals which do include a lot of scavenging creatures (including the vulture, rat, raven and gull mentioned by name).

As for Vulture Burgers... If you're in the desert and they're flying around, a good shot with a sling would take one down and be quite a meal. Not to modern tastes, but people ate them 2,000 years ago and tended to get sick from it. A lot of the prohibitions on food (especially in the Torah) are for health and hygiene reasons - don't mix certain things, don't eat certain animals. It's less of an issue in modern times due to pasturisation and refrigeration, but they're still very relevant in some places (apart from the obvious religious validity).
Finally an answer! Thanks, Denarius. I thought this guy was talking like the references were everywhere in certain scriptures.

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  Old  August 1st, 2009, 1:01am     #5
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Yes, I read a book once entitled something like How to eat according to the Bible - and it did mention not eating scavengers - it mentioned not eating pork or shrimp, or anything from the ocean that is a scavenger. Since then I did give up eating those and I rarely get sick. Hope that helps some. It's been awhile since I read that book.

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  Old  August 1st, 2009, 1:37am     #6
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If everyone were to follow a "true" biblical diet..


God states that cud-chewing animals with split hooves can be eaten (Leviticus 11:3; Deuteronomy 14:6). These specifically include the cattle, sheep, goat, deer and gazelle families (Deuteronomy 14:4-5). He also lists such animals as camels, rabbits and pigs as being unclean, or unfit to eat (Leviticus 11:4-8). He later lists such "creeping things" as moles, mice and lizards as unfit to eat (verses 29-31), as well as four-footed animals with paws (cats, dogs, bears, lions, tigers, etc.) as unclean (verse 27).


He tells us that salt and freshwater fish with fins and scales may be eaten (verses 9-12), but water creatures without those characteristics (catfish, lobsters, crabs, shrimp, mussels, clams, oysters, squid, octopi, etc.) should not be eaten.



Birds such as chickens, turkeys and pheasants are not on the unclean list and therefore can be eaten. Insects, with the exception of locusts, crickets and grasshoppers, are listed as unclean (verses 20-23).


In listing the animals that should not be eaten, God forbids the consumption of scavengers and carrion eaters, which devour other animals for their food.



When it comes to sea creatures, bottom dwellers such as lobsters and crabs scavenge for dead animals on the sea floor. Shellfish such as oysters, clams and mussels similarly consume decaying organic matter that sinks to the sea floor, including sewage.




A common denominator of many of the animals God designates as unclean is that they routinely eat flesh that would sicken or kill human beings. When we eat such animals we partake of a food chain that includes things harmful to people.




On this page there is a list of animals on the bottom of the page that are considered clean and unclean

http://www.ucg.org/booklets/CU/bibledesignate.htm


as far as I know (could be totally wrong here) only those of the Jewish faith eat this type of diet.

I had heard on some show on the history channel or discovery that part of the reason that this diet existed was because it was felt that eating any of these animals would make you ill.



I however won't be giving up my shrimp, cleams, or bacon anytime soon. Most of the stuff on the unclean list I wouldn't want to eat anyway (like dog, vultures, roadrunners, and mules.


But there are those things on the clean list that I wouldn't ever want to eat either...Like locusts, grasshoppers and crockets.


Pretty much in the meat department if the animsl does not chew cud, and have a part in thier hoof they are "unclean", or is not a fish with fins and scales they are unclean (so no catfish either) and only birds that are not scavengers (no vultures, ravens, hawks..




If eating certain animals is a sin I am in for it because i have eaten whale, pig, clams, cuttle fish, octopu, shrimp, catfish, armadillo , pepperoni (yup that is on the unclean list too), escargot, andabalone,

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  Old  August 1st, 2009, 2:05am     #7
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Toad; Was that maybe "Arnold Murray" from Gravitt Ark? Love his preachings BTW, straightforward stuff

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  Old  August 1st, 2009, 2:46am     #8
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you can eat all that only if you eat jesus shaped crackers afterwards.
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  Old  August 1st, 2009, 3:02am     #9
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Medieval superstition. It's high time that human kind moves on.
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  Old  August 1st, 2009, 3:05am     #10
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Medieval superstition. It's high time that human kind moves on.
amen
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  Old  August 1st, 2009, 3:32am     #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweepmama View Post
Toad; Was that maybe "Arnold Murray" from Gravitt Ark? Love his preachings BTW, straightforward stuff
I don't remember the minister's name but the program is "The Shepherd's Chapel."

Even though I'm technically a Quaker and went to a Quaker "Bible College" I don't believe in the "infallibility" of any writing or scriptures, so I ask more in the spirit of trying to understand what was claimed by any religious-oriented writings rather than a desire to ferret out incontrovertable "words from 'God's' mouth."

But even in looking at this from a "spiritual" standpoint, I find it curious when Christian teachers speak of the Old Covenant (Jewish codes and teaching) as "valid today" as applying to believers in Christ's New Covenant. Christians were taught "Nothing is unclean of itself," and were no longer under the Old Covenant that proclaimed some foods unclean.

I personally can't believe people who eat Catfish are more likely to get sick than people who don't (Catfish is my favorite fish, as a matter of fact). I wouldn't encourage folks to eat vultures or hyena, but I think any idea that "animals which feast on carrion" have digestive systems unable to "filter pathogens" to a great degree, and that as a result their flesh is putrid or automatically "dirty" and more causing of disease than other meats is ridiculous. I can see how undercooking of pork (and resultant trichinosis) might have engendered the beginning of this "tainted meat" concept originally, but no one would eat ANY kind of pork or bacon today if pathogens were inherent in the meat.

But here I've said I'm not trying to start a religious debate and knowing even these last words might start opening a "can of worms," I'd probably best bow out of this discussion here, and hope any resultant flames from this discussion don't become too unmanageable. Denarius and Zelda did well to answer my questions, so my thanks to them for doing so.



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  Old  August 1st, 2009, 6:20am     #12
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I believe that all creatures have a purpose and the purpose of scavengers is to help dispose of decay. On the land and in the water there are scavengers. I was having a lot of trouble with my stomach and decided to at least try this. I must say that I used to love pork, shrimp, lobster, and the rest so it was not an easy thing to do for me. Many of my problems did improve or go away when I stopped eating these things.
It is my belief that God designed our bodies and knows what is good for us to eat and what is not, but it is always our choice.
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  Old  August 1st, 2009, 6:46am     #13
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I didn't know a catfish was a scavenger. I can't imagine eating a hyena.
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  Old  August 1st, 2009, 6:47am     #14
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I have been eating this diet for years.

Basically it is a Jewish diet: Only animals with a cloven hoof. About the fish: it's only the fish that has fins and scales.

Scavangers, well that's just what they are. The clean up the dead stuff on the ocean floors and the earth.


I really believe that the diet is healthy for you although it is really hard to eliminate the foods we drink and eat now.

I wonder what he thinks of Sodas etc.

Really it's amazing if you really think about it. He did it for our own good.

I think its freaking amazing how the body works.


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  Old  August 1st, 2009, 7:07am     #15
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Most of these references are from the Old Testament, to which we're no longer bound.
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