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  Old  September 20th, 2013, 11:35am     #61
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Originally Posted by guruwan2b View Post
So what do you think about CEO's who make almost 500 times what their average worker makes?
So if the average worker makes 30,000 a year x 500 = 15 million a year.
That's fine. I have no problem with that. They call that the American dream.
I'm sure he wasn't the kid in school who got in fights, cut class and did drugs.
A guy who hits a ball with a wooden bat makes more than that a year.
Now that's sad.

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  Old  September 20th, 2013, 11:49am     #62
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  Old  September 20th, 2013, 12:36pm     #63
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So if the average worker makes 30,000 a year x 500 = 15 million a year.
That's fine. I have no problem with that. They call that the American dream.
I'm sure he wasn't the kid in school who got in fights, cut class and did drugs.
A guy who hits a ball with a wooden bat makes more than that a year.
Now that's sad.
Well on one thing we definitely agree Ė the guy hitting the ball with the bat making millions a year? Yeah, thatís absurd.

I guess where my beliefs differ from what the GOP party has turned into is a function of how I was raised. I was raised to believe in hard work, that hard work would be rewarded, and to believe in the American Dream. Iím lower middle-class (I guess thatís the category I fall into) and both my husband and I work full time.

But Ė and itís a BIG but Ė I was also raised to help others in need. Whether it was due to circumstances beyond their control (ill health, mental illness, bad economy) or even brought on by their own actions. You help others who need it. Itís how I was raised and Iíve always thought itís the right thing to do. And not just me personally Ė I fully expect a portion of my tax dollars to do the same thing.

I was never taught that being poor or needing help was something to be ashamed of. Some people are better off than others Ė those that are better off have a moral obligation to help those less fortunate. Not because you're getting a big tax write-off either. You do it because itís the right thing to do.
  Old  September 20th, 2013, 12:58pm     #64
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Well on one thing we definitely agree Ė the guy hitting the ball with the bat making millions a year? Yeah, thatís absurd.

I guess where my beliefs differ from what the GOP party has turned into is a function of how I was raised. I was raised to believe in hard work, that hard work would be rewarded, and to believe in the American Dream. Iím lower middle-class (I guess thatís the category I fall into) and both my husband and I work full time.

But Ė and itís a BIG but Ė I was also raised to help others in need. Whether it was due to circumstances beyond their control (ill health, mental illness, bad economy) or even brought on by their own actions. You help others who need it. Itís how I was raised and Iíve always thought itís the right thing to do. And not just me personally Ė I fully expect a portion of my tax dollars to do the same thing.

I was never taught that being poor or needing help was something to be ashamed of. Some people are better off than others Ė those that are better off have a moral obligation to help those less fortunate. Not because you're getting a big tax write-off either. You do it because itís the right thing to do.
Good on you!

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  Old  September 20th, 2013, 12:58pm     #65
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Well on one thing we definitely agree – the guy hitting the ball with the bat making millions a year? Yeah, that’s absurd.

I guess where my beliefs differ from what the GOP party has turned into is a function of how I was raised. I was raised to believe in hard work, that hard work would be rewarded, and to believe in the American Dream. I’m lower middle-class (I guess that’s the category I fall into) and both my husband and I work full time.

But – and it’s a BIG but – I was also raised to help others in need. Whether it was due to circumstances beyond their control (ill health, mental illness, bad economy) or even brought on by their own actions. You help others who need it. It’s how I was raised and I’ve always thought it’s the right thing to do. And not just me personally – I fully expect a portion of my tax dollars to do the same thing.

I was never taught that being poor or needing help was something to be ashamed of. Some people are better off than others – those that are better off have a moral obligation to help those less fortunate. Not because you're getting a big tax write-off either. You do it because it’s the right thing to do.
And those big coporations donate millions of dollars to all different types of charities.

Funny because I have a friend who lost her job and is now renting a room from someone and has zero dollars and a part time job that pays nothing. Do I feel sorry for her, a little. Because she gambled all of her 401K and unemployment money. Not to mention the year's salary she got when they closed down her company. She just sat back, didn't look for a job, didn't pay her rent and gambled. Now she wants everyone to pay her bills. I feel no sympathy for that. Sorry. I don't help people that don't want to help themselves. I bust my butt everyday for years to get what I have.

So you don't think that CEO's work hard? They travel all over the world, miss seeing their kids grow up not to mention the stress. Just so they're family and kids can have a good life.

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  Old  September 20th, 2013, 1:15pm     #66
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  Old  September 20th, 2013, 4:13pm     #67
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And those big coporations donate millions of dollars to all different types of charities.

Funny because I have a friend who lost her job and is now renting a room from someone and has zero dollars and a part time job that pays nothing. Do I feel sorry for her, a little. Because she gambled all of her 401K and unemployment money. Not to mention the year's salary she got when they closed down her company. She just sat back, didn't look for a job, didn't pay her rent and gambled. Now she wants everyone to pay her bills. I feel no sympathy for that. Sorry. I don't help people that don't want to help themselves. I bust my butt everyday for years to get what I have.

So you don't think that CEO's work hard? They travel all over the world, miss seeing their kids grow up not to mention the stress. Just so they're family and kids can have a good life.
Quite frankly, I've given up on the CEO's in the 1%. They are who they are - greedy SOBs.

What concerns me terribly is those same 1% of the population seem to be buying politicians and "news" outlets at an alarming rate, leading to that same greedy mindset infiltrating our government which in turn is making what I consider to be horrible decisions when it comes to spending MY tax dollars. Notice I stressed the word "my"? That's because most of those big CEO'S are paying less in taxes than I do each year. They save their money to buy elections.

So that's my big concern. We're turning into a nation that is no longer a nation to look up to. And anyone who has the nerve to blame Obama for what's happening (or has not happened because it was blocked)...well, they really need to take a good hard looke at reality. Not the fear-mongering, faux news version that's been spoonfed to them by the Koch brothers and their buddies. Reality. Hungry people - senior citizens, people who can't find work, veterans, people who are just plain down on their luck. How is it a bad thing to help people like that? How do you justify it in your heart. How do you call yourself a Christian???

It just saddens and angers me at what our country is turning into. Both of my parents have passed away, but I can only imagine their thoughts on this...they'd be horrified.
  Old  September 20th, 2013, 7:25pm     #68
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Even taking morals out of the equation, for those that have no soul. The idiocy and the short sightedness of the path that we are on is ludacris. Yeah lets trash the unions that have helped bolster a strong middle class in this country for years. And let's take advantage of the fact that jobs are more scarce than employees and use that as leverage to cut workers pay or benefits. And where does that takes us?

Fewer dollars to go around and be spent on food, clothes, appliances, cars, houses etc. The top 1% can only buy so many of any of these things, they can never keep the economy going and their companies in business just based on the money that they can float into this economy. Especially with most of that wealth socked away in the Cayman Islands. They need the 99% to be out there buying in order for them to grow their business. So they are basically cutting their own collective throats. I'm really afraid to see how long it will take these mental giants to realize that.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...725730720.html


Fewer workers making less and less money means less going to both the state and the federal government in the form of taxes. Both in the form of income tax and sales tax. We already are seeing the effects of that. The infrastructure in this county is in bad condition, and it doesn't look like it will be getting better any time soon. So look for more bridge collapses in the future. Especially when you factor in the severe weather anomalies which we've been experiencing lately. We need to be working more on securing infrastructure not less.
http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/a/#p/home

The death of the middle class and what it really means? It means that the American dream is dying if not already dead. Don't believe it? I normally don't do this but you really need to see all 44 of these facts for the truth to really sink in.

Quote:
1. According to one recent survey, "four out of five U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives".

2. The growth rate of real disposable personal income is the lowest that it has been in decades.

3. Median household income (adjusted for inflation) has fallen by 7.8 percent since the year 2000.

4. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the middle class is taking home a smaller share of the overall income pie than has ever been recorded before.

5. The home ownership rate in the United States is the lowest that it has been in 18 years.

6. It is more expensive to rent a home in America than ever before. In fact, median asking rent for vacant rental units just hit a brand new all-time record high.

7. According to one recent survey, 76 percent of all Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.

8. The U.S. economy actually lost 240,000 full-time jobs last month, and the number of full-time workers in the United States is now about 6 million below the old record that was set back in 2007.

9. The largest employer in the United States right now is Wal-Mart. The second largest employer in the United States right now is a temp agency (Kelly Services).

10. One out of every ten jobs in the United States is now filled through a temp agency.

11. According to the Social Security Administration, 40 percent of all workers in the United States make less than $20,000 a year.

12. The ratio of wages and salaries to GDP is near an all-time record low.

13. The U.S. economy continues to trade good paying jobs for low paying jobs. 60 percent of the jobs lost during the last recession were mid-wage jobs, but 58 percent of the jobs created since then have been low wage jobs.

14. Back in 1980, less than 30% of all jobs in the United States were low income jobs. Today, more than 40% of all jobs in the United States are low income jobs.

15. At this point, one out of every four American workers has a job that pays $10 an hour or less.

16. According to one study, between 1969 and 2009 the median wages earned by American men between the ages of 30 and 50 declined by 27 percent after you account for inflation.

17. In the year 2000, about 17 million Americans were employed in manufacturing. Today, only about 12 million Americans are employed in manufacturing.

18. The United States has lost more than 56,000 manufacturing facilities since 2001.

19. The average number of hours worked per employed person per year has fallen by about 100 since the year 2000.

20. Back in the year 2000, more than 64 percent of all working age Americans had a job. Today, only 58.7 percent of all working age Americans have a job.

21. When you total up all working age Americans that do not have a job, it comes to more than 100 million.

22. The average duration of unemployment in the United States is nearly three times as long as it was back in the year 2000.

23. The percentage of Americans that are self-employed has steadily declined over the past decade and is now at an all-time low.

24. Right now there are 20.2 million Americans that spend more than half of their incomes on housing. That represents a 46 percent increase from 2001.

25. In 1989, the debt to income ratio of the average American family was about 58 percent. Today it is up to 154 percent.

26. Total U.S. household debt grew from just 1.4 trillion dollars in 1980 to a whopping 13.7 trillion dollars in 2007. This played a huge role in the financial crisis of 2008, and the problem still has not been solved.

27. The total amount of student loan debt in the United States recently surpassed the one trillion dollar mark.

28. Total home mortgage debt in the United States is now about 5 times larger than it was just 20 years ago.

29. Back in the year 2000, the mortgage delinquency rate was about 2 percent. Today, it is nearly 10 percent.

30. Consumer debt in the United States has risen by a whopping 1700% since 1971, and 46% of all Americans carry a credit card balance from month to month.

31. In 1999, 64.1 percent of all Americans were covered by employment-based health insurance. Today, only 55.1 percent are covered by employment-based health insurance.

32. One study discovered that approximately 41 percent of all working age Americans either have medical bill problems or are currently paying off medical debt, and according to a report published in The American Journal of Medicine medical bills are a major factor in more than 60 percent of all personal bankruptcies in the United States.

33. Each year, the average American must work 107 days just to make enough money to pay local, state and federal taxes.

34. Today, approximately 46.2 million Americans are living in poverty.

35. The number of Americans living in poverty has increased by more than 15 million since the year 2000.

36. Families that have a head of household under the age of 30 have a poverty rate of 37 percent.

37. At this point, approximately 25 million American adults are living with their parents.

38. In the year 2000, there were only 17 million Americans on food stamps. Today, there are more than 47 million Americans on food stamps.

39. Back in the 1970s, about one out of every 50 Americans was on food stamps. Today, about one out of every 6.5 Americans is on food stamps.

40. Right now, the number of Americans on food stamps exceeds the entire population of the nation of Spain.

41. According to one calculation, the number of Americans on food stamps now exceeds the combined populations of “Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming.”

42. At this point, more than a million public school students in the United States are homeless. This is the first time that has ever happened in our history. That number has risen by 57 percent since the 2006-2007 school year.

43. According to U.S. Census data, 57 percent of all American children live in a home that is either considered to be "poor" or "low income".

44. In the year 2000, the ratio of social welfare benefits to salaries and wages was approximately 21 percent. Today, the ratio of social welfare benefits to salaries and wages is approximately 35 percent.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...uld-know-about

I think it's safe to say that the US is no longer the country that people all over the world aspire to make home. Because the dream is dead and is quickly turning into a nightmare.
  Old  September 20th, 2013, 11:51pm     #69
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I think it's safe to say that the US is no longer the country that people all over the world aspire to make home. Because the dream is dead and is quickly turning into a nightmare.
Oh, the dream is still alive, and requires hard work and talent!

The nightmare is what some in this country want to turn us into

The USSA.

Equal results for everyone

A liberal is man who will give away everything he doesn't own.
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  Old  September 21st, 2013, 12:03am     #70
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Oh, the dream is still alive, and requires hard work and talent!

The nightmare is what some in this country want to turn us into

The USSA.

Equal results for everyone
And this is exactly the kind of thinking I was talking about earlier. I understand if maybe you have very limited resources yourself (I really don't much about your situation quite frankly, and that might be the case) - but if you're doing well, and you see someone in need, the thought of helping them just never enters your mind? Like, at all?

Or do you think everyone should stand on their own two feet - no help at all from the government? Because if that's the case, I assume you or nobody in your family has ever received ANY sort of government subsidized assistance? Unemployment? Medicare? You and yours are all independently wealthy and keeping every last dime to yourselves?

I'm really not trying to be snarky - I just can't comprehend the mindset. It's a completely foreign concept to me.
  Old  September 21st, 2013, 12:11am     #71
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And this is exactly the kind of thinking I was talking about earlier. I understand if maybe you have very limited resources yourself (I really don't much about your situation quite frankly, and that might be the case) - but if you're doing well, and you see someone in need, the thought of helping them just never enters your mind? Like, at all?

Or do you think everyone should stand on their own two feet - no help at all from the government? Because if that's the case, I assume you or nobody in your family has ever received ANY sort of government subsidized assistance? Unemployment? Medicare? You and yours are all independently wealthy and keeping every last dime to yourselves?

I'm really not trying to be snarky - I just can't comprehend the mindset. It's a completely foreign concept to me.
I'm a huge proponent of being charitable

I would give even more if the government didn't take as much as they do

The more they take, the less people give

A liberal is man who will give away everything he doesn't own.
Frank Dane
  Old  September 21st, 2013, 12:15am     #72
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I'm a huge proponent of being charitable

I would give even more if the government didn't take as much as they do

The more they take, the less people give
Still not getting the concept, are you? The government should ALSO be helping the people who need it. You know, with the money they take? Like with food stamps for people down on their luck, rather than subsidies to millionaire farmers.

Do you understand where I'm going with this? You can totally not agree with it, but do you at least understand the point I'm trying to make?
  Old  September 21st, 2013, 12:19am     #73
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Still not getting the concept, are you? The government should ALSO be helping the people who need it. You know, with the money they take? Like with food stamps for people down on their luck, rather than subsidies to millionaire farmers.

Do you understand where I'm going with this? You can totally not agree with it, but do you at least understand the point I'm trying to make?
The church does a much better job, and is far more efficient

They don't have to pay salaries and standard government waste with tax payer money

Charity is done most effective on a local level

A liberal is man who will give away everything he doesn't own.
Frank Dane
  Old  September 21st, 2013, 12:27am     #74
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The church does a much better job, and is far more efficient

They don't have to pay salaries with tax payer money

Charity is done most effective on a local level
Would you be referring to those same "Christians" who voted these people into office to begin with? Yeah, not buying THAT for a minute.

But if helps you sleep at night, then good for you.
  Old  September 21st, 2013, 12:33am     #75
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Would you be referring to those same "Christians" who voted these people into office to begin with? Yeah, not buying THAT for a minute.

But if helps you sleep at night, then good for you.
When a government feeds, clothes, and houses you, you are no longer free. They force you to live by their rules

They own you

Communities and church's do it out of good

Big difference

Get involved and you can have a big impact!

A liberal is man who will give away everything he doesn't own.
Frank Dane
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