Who misled us on Iraq? This tells you who.

[gunnerclark]

Here is a nice site to show you the truth about who misled who. Trying to argue against what they said will be a little hard
THE TRUTH ON WHO MISLED US ON IRAQ (http://flashbunny.org/content/misled.html)

[Txsweeper]

Thanks Gunner!

[iggy1I]

LOL! Yep, good old Clinton made dubya invade Iraq!! :rofl3:

[advantage2000]

Very moving... the sad music was especially heart-wrenching.

So these pansies were all talk, but only Dubya had the cajones to pull the trigger?

Or was it peer pressure?
"Gee, Laura, all the other kids were teasing me, I had to invade Iraq."

[iggy1I]

since gunner can't seem to let him go...
From that "liberal NYTimes":
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/02/politics/02PANE.html?hp

Bush Aides Block Clinton's Papers From 9/11 Panel
WASHINGTON, April 1 — The commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks said on Thursday that it was pressing the White House to explain why the Bush administration had blocked thousands of pages of classified foreign policy and counterterrorism documents from former President Bill Clinton's White House files from being turned over to the panel's investigators.

The White House confirmed on Thursday that it had withheld a variety of classified documents from Mr. Clinton's files that had been gathered by the National Archives over the last two years in response to requests from the commission, which is investigating intelligence and law enforcement failures before the attacks.

Scott McClellan, the White House spokesman, said some Clinton administration documents had been withheld because they were "duplicative or unrelated," while others were withheld because they were "highly sensitive" and the information in them could be relayed to the commission in other ways. "We are providing the commission with access to all the information they need to do their job," Mr. McClellan said.

I'm sure they're just holding them back so as to protect the Clinton administration...

[Txsweeper]

classified documents

"highly sensitive"

Hmmm, can't figure that one out myself, either!

[Tametaz]

The Clinton Adminsitration has requested that they be released.

[iggy1I]

Hmmm, can't figure that one out myself, either!
So, are they "highly sensitive" like dubya's papers from his gov. of Texas days, or "highly sensitive" like dubya's daddy's papers?

[sjr1535]

I see your point, but President Bush is accountable for his own actions. He came into office with cabinet members and advisers very experienced in foreign policy and national defense. I seriously doubt that they gave any credence to anything Clinton's administration had to say about foreign policy.

My problem with his actions is that the UN inspectors were saying that they could not find any WMD. Therefore, I don't understand the urgency of invading Iraq. I do not believe Iraq was an immediate threat.

There was no evidence then, and there is still no evidence, that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. Apparently President Bush was advised of this and did not believe it. He chose to believe that despite the UN inspectors' reports, there were WMD in Iraq. If anything, our "friend" Saudi Arabia had a much greater connection to Al Queda and the actual terrorists who participated in 9/11 but there were no sanctions against Saudi Arabia.

I am suspicious that President Bush was pushed into the war because of "unfinished business" from his father's administration.

The cost of this war in American military and Iraqi civilian lives has been enormous. The war and peacekeeping efforts have cost billions of dollars that we could be using to beef up national security. We have seriously harmed our credibility in the international diplomatic arena and changed the political climate of our allies.

I think it worth asking and answering what motivated President Bush to invade Iraq.

[pattyepye]

Thanks for sharing the FLASHBUNNY website with us. You know with a name like FLASHBUNNY, I had a hard time taking it seriously, but then I found this major revelation on that same site.

http://www.flashbunny.org/articles/bushplan.html

[gunnerclark]

I never said Bush was a saint.
Clinton was not a bad president. He was a bad person.
Bush is not an evil person. He is a bad president.

So when people say that he lied I have to show the same words came out of Clinton administration people also.

You cannot simply chant endlessly the same "bush lied, bush lied, bush lied" when the same words were said by the other administration.
It is called reality.

Politicians lie
Politicians are not to be trusted
Politicians are the threat to our freedom


Flashbunny is a good site.
He shows how both parties are out for themselves.
If you think all I do is hammer Clinton you are wrong. I hammer chanting without thought.
The last president was Clinton so he will be used as a comparison against bush.

They both failed.

[iggy1I]

I never said Bush was a saint.
Clinton was not a bad president. He was a bad person.
Bush is not an evil person. He is a bad president.

So when people say that he lied I have to show the same words came out of Clinton administration people also.

You cannot simply chant endlessly the same "bush lied, bush lied, bush lied" when the same words were said by the other administration.
It is called reality.

Politicians lie
Politicians are not to be trusted
Politicians are the threat to our freedom


Flashbunny is a good site.
He shows how both parties are out for themselves.
If you think all I do is hammer Clinton you are wrong. I hammer chanting without thought.
The last president was Clinton so he will be used as a comparison against bush.

They both failed.


gunner, did you see when those Clinton quotes were? What years were they? Were there any bombings of Iraq during the Clinton administration? Do you think it might be possible that any bombings made by the Clinton administration, may have taken out Iraq's WMDs?
I am so sick of this current administration blaming the past administration for it's own failings. And I am sick of others doing it also. What have I always said on these boards...when is this administration going to take any responsibility for anything?
The bush administration's mantra since day one in the White House has been: Clinton has done this, the Clinton aides have done that. Remember the "trashing of the White House" that was put out there by bush and company? Found to be not true. Remember all the things the Clintons had "stolen" from the White House? Not true again, and yet they are posted over and over and over.
And gunner, this was the first negative thing you have ever said about bush. Your posts have always been the "hammering" of the Clinton administration with the excuse that it was for balance for the "hammering" of bush. Honestly, does that make any sense at all?
Back to the point of this thread--Iraq. No one but the bush is responsible for us being in Iraq right now. No one but bush is responsible for us having to go it alone and pay the price with our soldiers lives and with our dollars. No one but bush.

[renegade]

BUMPER STICKERS OF THE YEAR

Bush/Cheney '04: Four More Wars!

Bush/Cheney '04: Assimilate. Resistance is Futile.

Bush/Cheney '04: Because the truth just isn't good enough.

Bush/Cheney '04: Leave no billionaire behind

Bush/Cheney '04: The last vote you'll ever have to cast.

Who would Jesus Bomb?

:goodevil:

[superchickee]

Hey! I want one of those bumper stickers! Where can I get one! Funny! LOL!

[renegade]

I haven't started printing them yet. :goodevil:

[gunnerclark]

So lets look at it this way.
Clinton said they had WMD
His administration said they had WMD
Bish said they had WMD
His administration said they had WMD

One acted on this belief, the other did not.

So who lied?
Either they both did or the mindless chant from the left
"Bush lied
Bush lied"

should be

"Politicians lie,
politicians lie,
but we only blame republicans
cause they're just bad bad bad"

The political parties of today are just the opposite sides of the knife in freedoms back.

I think the confusion is that you think that I am defending bush. No!!
I am saying there is enough blame to go on both parties, Bush, Clinton and most of Washington.
Do not spend all you energy hating the puppet.
Spend your energy hating the system that created the last two puppets.

[LastLaugh]

[iggy1I]

So lets look at it this way.
Clinton said they had WMD
His administration said they had WMD
Bish said they had WMD
His administration said they had WMD

One acted on this belief, the other did not.

So who lied?
Either they both did or the mindless chant from the left
"Bush lied
Bush lied"

should be

"Politicians lie,
politicians lie,
but we only blame republicans
cause they're just bad bad bad"

The political parties of today are just the opposite sides of the knife in freedoms back.

I think the confusion is that you think that I am defending bush. No!!
I am saying there is enough blame to go on both parties, Bush, Clinton and most of Washington.
Do not spend all you energy hating the puppet.
Spend your energy hating the system that created the last two puppets.
No gunner, you have it wrong. Most of us are not spending our time just "hating the puppet". I spend my time here and on other threads trying to get people to check out facts instead of believing the spin and the out and out lies. Case in point is what you just posted:
Clinton said they had WMD
His administration said they had WMD
Bish said they had WMD
His administration said they had WMD
One acted on this belief, the other did not.
All I asked is check out the dates, but no, you'd rather just keep posting crap. And I totally agree that a good part of Washington is corrupt, but how else can we change it, if we don't expose it? (sorry, picking up arms is not an option for me)
I don't believe we'll ever agree on much else, but for every bit of crap you post gunner, I'll be right behind you and everyone else, exposing it. :wavy:

[gunnerclark]

Before more names get called explain why the dates are important on the flash show.
As they are the reason the "crap" is wrong then explain please.

[iggy1I]

Before more names get called explain why the dates are important on the flash show.
As they are the reason the "crap" is wrong then explain please.
Now you know I didn't call you a name--just your post. :laugh:
Most of those quotes were from when Clinton was in office, were they not? Did Clinton do any bombing while he was in office? (clue--wag the dog)
Is there a slight chance that Iraq's weapons might have been destroyed in those bombings? Could that be why no one could or can find them?
Did Kerry base his statement on the facts coming out of the White House?

You say that one administration acted on this belief and one did not. Am I to assume that you were giving Clinton credit for acting on his belief when he bombed Iraq?

I'm not even quite sure what the point of this thread is/was...There was no terrorist threat to the US from Iraq. If there was, please show me. Show me how saddam fits into the "War on Terror". As I've said over and over--yes, he was a bad man, but being a bad man is not the same as being a terrorist.

(forgot to tell you--yes, I will check out your site. :) )

[Txsweeper]

Here iggy, the dates that these quotes were made. The others, ones not listed, were prior to Nov 2000.

"There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seing and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have alway s underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002,

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. "[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.

[gunnerclark]

So his lack of action against al qaida makes him better?
Maybe if he had attempted to do something more people would be alive.

[iggy1I]

Here iggy, the dates that these quotes were made. The others, ones not listed, were prior to Nov 2000.



Uh, without checking any of them and taking you at your word, I'll just assume they were all talking out their a**holes. Got anything else?

Oops, forgot to ask you, how come in this video from 2001 Powell and Rice say Iraq has no weapons and they are not a threat? http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/powell-no-wmd.htm

[Txsweeper]

Uh, without checking any of them and taking you at your word, I'll just assume they were all talking out their a**holes. Got anything else?

Oops, forgot to ask you, how come in this video from 2001 Powell and Rice say Iraq has no weapons and they are not a threat? http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/powell-no-wmd.htm

Well then, make a thread!

Got anything else? Anything else what???? You told Gunner that you assumed all the quotes were when Clinton was in office, I corrected you and provided you with the actual dates. Look them up. Assuming all those Democrats were talking out their behinds is a very good assumption.

[iggy1I]

Well then, make a thread!

Got anything else? Anything else what???? You told Gunner that you assumed all the quotes were when Clinton was in office, I corrected you and provided you with the actual dates. Look them up. Assuming all those Democrats were talking out their behinds is a very good assumption.
No, you didn't correct me. I was talking about the quotes from the link gunner posted. You may want to watch it again or it appears you're just talking out of your...oh never mind... :halo:
I notice you don't address the link I posted. What were Powell and Rice talking out of?

[carogonza]

Uh, without checking any of them and taking you at your word, I'll just assume they were all talking out their a**holes. Got anything else?

Oops, forgot to ask you, how come in this video from 2001 Powell and Rice say Iraq has no weapons and they are not a threat? http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/powell-no-wmd.htm

Iggy thanks for the link. They knew, they lied. Now we are going to pay the price. :worry:

[iggy1I]

Well then, make a thread!

Got anything else? Anything else what???? You told Gunner that you assumed all the quotes were when Clinton was in office, I corrected you and provided you with the actual dates. Look them up. Assuming all those Democrats were talking out their behinds is a very good assumption.
So what is the reasoning for posting this, " You can be an awful hateful person Iggy, you need to chill." Yes, you deleted it from the thread, but it is still in my mailbox. I have done nothing to deserve that.
You have no interest in discussing, you just wish to distract people from the real issues. Have a good life and see you at the voters booth.

[Txsweeper]

So what is the reasoning for posting this, " You can be an awful hateful person Iggy, you need to chill." Yes, you deleted it from the thread, but it is still in my mailbox. I have done nothing to deserve that.
You have no interest in discussing, you just wish to distract people from the real issues. Have a good life and see you at the voters booth.


I deleted it because I felt that I was being ugly, and I'm not an ugly person. You wore me out.......simple and to the point.

[MrDave]

Glad to hear Gunner admit we were misled and lied to.

Since Bush was just a Clinton apostile I suppose we can lay the blame on Clinton.

[yadgirl]

FlashBunny.org Advertising Rates


For $50 a month, your banner ad will be rotated randomly throughout each page of this site and at the online store. Banner size is standard 468x60. You will be responsible for hosting your banner ad - i.e., the ad will be displayed on this site but the graphic will be pulled directly from your server. If you do not have the capability to host a banner ad, your ad can be hosted here for an extra $5 per month. Discounts are available if you pay for three months or more at a time.


http://flashbunny.org/static/sponsor.html

[gunnerclark]

Uh, without checking any of them and taking you at your word, I'll just assume they were all talking out their a**holes. Got anything else?

Oops, forgot to ask you, how come in this video from 2001 Powell and Rice say Iraq has no weapons and they are not a threat? http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/powell-no-wmd.htm

I think this is the most important question. It should not be "did Bush lie?", it should be "why do we allow politicians on both sides to lie whenever they feel like it and get away with it"
Did he lie? I think so. I also think most of the presidents and politicians for the last several decades have learned they can get away with it because they treat us as the puppets.
When the same words come out of their mouths, and the video shows him saying the opposite thing elsewhere you know they are lying. Every darn politician in Washington.

Why did we let Clinton get away with lying to the grand jury
Why are we letting Bush lie about the WMD

We need a whole new set of politicians, instead of politicians who play us off on one another like we are here. :frown3:

So lets stop fighting their battles and fight for an honest government. If an honest government is possible

[pechuna]

Yaddy, what is the home site?

[MrDave]

I
Why did we let Clinton get away with lying to the grand jury
Why are we letting Bush lie about the WMD

We need a whole new set of politicians, instead of politicians who play us off on one another like we are here. :frown3:


Good points!

[LastLaugh]

So his lack of action against al qaida makes him better?
Maybe if he had attempted to do something more people would be alive.

The Clinton Administration wanted to declare war on al-Qaeda. An aggressive military response was prepared, including special-forces attacks on al-Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan. But Clinton decided that it was inappropriate to take such dramatic action during the transition to the Bush presidency.".........."

[yadgirl]

Yaddy, what is the home site?

http://flashbunny.org/

If you can buy an ad for $50 and let it say anything you want it to say...

Well, why not?

yad

[MrDave]

The Clinton Administration wanted to declare war on al-Qaeda. An aggressive military response was prepared, including special-forces attacks on al-Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan. But Clinton decided that it was inappropriate to take such dramatic action during the transition to the Bush presidency.".........."

Clinton couldn't take such a dramatic step because he was playing with cigars and being impeached - that doesn't give you much of a platform to stand on when you want to start a fight against the terrorist who didn't seem that terrorizing back then.