The thread for conservatives...

[Defenderofthefaith]

Hi--since it seems I get bashed every time I post a conservative comment I'd like to start a pro-conservative thread that conservatives feel secure posting in. Perhaps I won't be misquoted or misunderstood here. So if you are for President Bush, anti homosexual unions and for Jesus Christ feel free to post here. And I know there are some of you out there! Thanks! :twocents:

[Txsweeper]

Hi Lisa. I am Pro-Bush all the way!!! I appreciate and admire any government offical who isn't afraid to thank God and pray for his country! I have great admiration for a President who would do what is necessary to free foreign countries from the brutal and deadly force of a tyrant! Thanks for starting this thread, I'm not extremely educated on world policy but appreciate a place to come to voice my opinion without being slammed for my believes.

Have a great day :cool2:

[Rapunzel676]

Sorry, Lissajean. You don't make the rules here. Anyone can post in any forum they choose, provided they are not banned. Futhermore, I notice that you post plenty in "liberal" threads. What's good for the goose. . . .

Besides, not all conservatives are of the same fundamentalist, reactionary strain as you are. My mother is a staunch conservative and I must say, her ideas are a bit different from yours! Where are people like her supposed to post? Few people fit into these narrowly defined categories you've set up here. :smile9:

[Mott]

Hi...I am christian conservative...pro Bush...He has my vote...Thank you for starting this thread

[sweepyhead]

Besides, not all conservatives are of the same fundamentalist, reactionary strain as you are.

I have to second this sentiment. My mother's boss is a pro-business, anti-tax conservative businessman who voted for Bush. He regrets it every day, and won't make that mistake again. Just another Bush supporter in recovery. I know several.

I personally was a moderate until Bush came along, and his actions have pushed me to become a flaming liberal. Bush may be steering the country, but he's asleep at the wheel.

Sweepy:sleep2:

[Veuve-Cliquot]

Sorry, Lissajean. You don't make the rules here. Anyone can post in any forum they choose, provided they are not banned. Futhermore, I notice that you post plenty in "liberal" threads. What's good for the goose. . . .


Amen, Rapunzel. Just because someone disagrees with your opinion, LisaJean, doesn't necessarily equate your being "bashed."

Rallying your like-minded friends around you to commiserate in a "closed" thread while you continue to post your opinions elsewhere is petty and hypocritical.

[delorey]

I am new to the site, but glad to see that there are other like minded folks here. I am very conservative, (close to Libertarian actually). And no, I am not thrilled with all that Bush has done, especially some of his domestic policies.. But he's certainly better than the opposition. I read the liberal posts on this thread, and can't see where they are voting FOR anything, just against something! I treasure our freedoms, and believe the less government, the better. But first and foremost, I am a Christian.

I even tried to pretend to be a liberal the other night to fool someone, but could not, cause I truly could not comprehend how they could agree with the platform!

[Mott]

Come on all you fellow conservatives...Make yourself known...We are a friendly bunch

Never be easily impressed
Never be easily intimidated
Never be easily offended

[Current]

Gentle reminder here.

No threads are closed in these forums until Brent or a moderator closes it. That means that ANYONE....... conservative, liberal, republican, democrat, christian, non-christian, homosexual, hetrosexual, etc...etc....etc.....can post in any thread they choose to, as long as the forum rules are followed.

When a person starts a thread, they should not be surprised that others may disagree and voice their opinions. The forums and threads are open to all who wish to participate.

[larry]

Sorry, Lissajean. You don't make the rules here. Anyone can post in any forum they choose, provided they are not banned. Futhermore, I notice that you post plenty in "liberal" threads. What's good for the goose. . . .

Besides, not all conservatives are of the same fundamentalist, reactionary strain as you are. My mother is a staunch conservative and I must say, her ideas are a bit different from yours! Where are people like her supposed to post? Few people fit into these narrowly defined categories you've set up here. :smile9:


I'm not sure I see much difference in this post and the objectionable post about hugging homosexuals that was removed a few days ago.


Will this post be removed or edited also moderators?

[Defenderofthefaith]

Sorry, Lissajean. You don't make the rules here. Anyone can post in any forum they choose, provided they are not banned. Futhermore, I notice that you post plenty in "liberal" threads. What's good for the goose. . . .

Besides, not all conservatives are of the same fundamentalist, reactionary strain as you are. My mother is a staunch conservative and I must say, her ideas are a bit different from yours! Where are people like her supposed to post? Few people fit into these narrowly defined categories you've set up here. :smile9:
I wasn't aware that asking for like opinions was "making the rules."

[Defenderofthefaith]

Amen, Rapunzel. Just because someone disagrees with your opinion, LisaJean, doesn't necessarily equate your being "bashed."

Rallying your like-minded friends around you to commiserate in a "closed" thread while you continue to post your opinions elsewhere is petty and hypocritical.
Wanting to hang around people who have the same opinions is not petty or hypocritical--criticizing it is!

[Defenderofthefaith]

I'm not sure I see much difference in this post and the objectionable post about hugging homosexuals that was removed a few days ago.


Will this post be removed or edited also moderators?
How come it's okay for you to have an opinion but not me? And, for the record, I am not against the persons who practice homosexuality but the the practice itself...

[Current]

Wanting to hang around people who have the same opinions is not petty or hypocritical--criticizing it is!


There is nothing wrong with wanting to hang around people that have the same opinions. I think what is being said here is this is a public message board, and every thread is open to every member. Some may agree, and some may not agree. If a person starts a thread, then prepare for differing opinions about the subject of said thread.

[Mott]

Very nice gentle reminder..Thank you. I agree, everyone who wants should post here. As a conservative, I have no problem with that. Like everyone else, I believe my views are the right ones. I value my own opinion :laugh: You know how we conservatives are...still a friendly bunch

[larry]

How come it's okay for you to have an opinion but not me? And, for the record, I am not against the persons who practice homosexuality but the the practice itself...


lissajean..dont get your dander up ;)


my post was not about anything you said...just go back and read.

[Nape]

And, for the record, I am not against the persons who practice homosexuality but the the practice itself...




I'm not trying to start a fight, really. What does this mean? I sincerely don't know. :confused:

[ignoramoose]

Another gentle reminder...anyone that thinks any post is over the line, bashing or attacking, can use the "report post" function to send that post to all the moderators. We can't be everywhere at once, and instead of bringing it up in the thread, it really helps us if you could just use that function instead. Thanks!

[Mott]

It should be obvious what she means. You can hate the sin and still love the sinner. For example, if your child was a thief you would still love your child while you still disapproved of his theft. The point is, you can love someone while you disapprove of their actions.

[Current]

Hi--since it seems I get bashed every time I post a conservative comment I'd like to start a pro-conservative thread that conservatives feel secure posting in. Perhaps I won't be misquoted or misunderstood here. So if you are for President Bush, anti homosexual unions and for Jesus Christ feel free to post here. And I know there are some of you out there! Thanks! :twocents:


Lissajean,

Let me see if I can explain why this may upset some people. I understand your intentions about wanting to start a thread for like-minded people, but as I said before, this is a public message board. We have over 30,000 members so you cannot be surprised that ONLY people that support President Bush and Jesus Christ, and who are against homosexual unions will respond to this post.

What if someone started a thread and they were in favor of Hitler, sex with minors, and satan? And they expected that no one else but like-minded people respond?

Would you reply? Would you give your opinion?

All I am saying is....if you start a thread, be prepared for responses, ones that agree with you and ones that don't. But one thing you cannot do is dictate who is allowed in the thread you started and who is not.

[TabooU]

Hi--since it seems I get bashed every time I post a conservative comment I'd like to start a pro-conservative thread that conservatives feel secure posting in. Perhaps I won't be misquoted or misunderstood here. So if you are for President Bush, anti homosexual unions and for Jesus Christ feel free to post here. And I know there are some of you out there! Thanks! :twocents:
Ok I am conservative. I believe men who kill should get the death penalty (in most cases). I don't believe that welfare should be so easy to get. I think birth control should be free to all citizens including surgical(meaning a vasectomy or tubes tied) I believe I have the right to carry a gun. I believe any two consenting adults should be able to marry. I think Clinton did a wonderful job with our economy. I think both Bush men drug it down. Is this conservative enough? I think rapists (at least repeat offenders and rapers of children) should be neutered. I think church and state should be separate. Am I conservative enough? I think women should be able to serve any job in the service a male does. In fact there shouldn't be any judgements or limitations based on race, religion, sex , sexual preference, any of the other stupid things people come up with to discriminate with in any vocation.I think a lot but that should prove how conservative I am.

For those of you who do not realize it, these were meant to prove you cannot put out a label and then label a person for one belief and then expect them to follow all other sets of rules. If the conservative party was demanding equal rights for women I'd aplaud them until I heard they were advocating beating children into submission. It's really hard to label people we all have minds that tend to think for themselves.

Don't get me wrong I think debate is good. I think airing opinions is good. It puts out there different points of view to open up peoples mind. We need a little shaking up now and then. I doubt you will find anybody that would agree with me on everything. They are not supposed to agree with anybody 100% of the time. ugh that would be a stefford wives kind of thing. :trolls: I am stepping of the soap box now.

[Nape]

It should be obvious what she means. You can hate the sin and still love the sinner. For example, if your child was a thief you would still love your child while you still disapproved of his theft. The point is, you can love someone while you disapprove of their actions.

As I said, I genuinely wasn't attempting to start a fight. I'm an educated, well-read adult, and couldn't figure out why it was okay for people to practice homosexuality, but not okay to be in "homosexual unions." (I suppose it's fair to say we aren't referring to the AFL/CIO.) And I couldn't figure out how it was okay for people to practice homosexuality, but homosexuality, in and of itself, was wrong.


It happens that at this point in my life, I live in an all-female household. Who's to say whether or not we are "doing it" here? What if we are? What if we aren't? Should my property rights and health-care benefits be curtailed because we have no males living here?
When my husband lived here, he and I didn't "do it" (at least with each other), for years. Under the "doing it" standard, we were not engaged in a "hetereosexual union." Do we want our government involved in "doing it/not doing it" determinations?

Barry Goldwater's main premise in The Conscience Of A Conservative: The government which governs best governs least. I don't want my government peering into my bedroom window.

Time for me to return to the virtual party . :cheer10:

[sweepyhead]

When a person starts a thread, they should not be surprised that others may disagree and voice their opinions. The forums and threads are open to all who wish to participate.

Yah. "The thread for conservatives" sounds a bit like an exclusive country club to me. The conservatives wouldn't want to be accused of bias, would they?

Sweepy:sleep2:

[chaucerlegend]

People disagree in this thread, just ignore them. No one says you have to defend your position.

I am a moderate and I am voting for Bush. Even with all his problems anything is better than what Kerry will do to this nation (weaken the military, weaken the Patriot Act, raise taxes). I personally don't ever want this country to get the reputation for pansiness it got under Clinton. :worry: :mad2:

[advantage2000]

People disagree in this thread, just ignore them. No one says you have to defend your position.

I am a moderate and I am voting for Bush. Even with all his problems anything is better than what Kerry will do to this nation (weaken the military, weaken the Patriot Act, raise taxes). I personally don't ever want this country to get the reputation for pansiness it got under Clinton. :worry: :mad2:

Kerry will not weaken the military. Also, I got news for you: the military has been been paring down for 15 years now, across both parties and several presidents... ever wonder why there are so many RESERVISTS over there? The PRESIDENT does not even have the power to "weaken" the miliitary.

The "PATRIOT" act is nothing but a stripping away of basic American rights!
(You know, the constitution is for more than keeping gays from marrying and burning flags! The ultra-conservatives should READ the constitution some time!) Also, and once again... the PRESIDENT did not create that act.

When Clinton was president, the US was loved and revered by all civilized countries... what has Dubya's cavalier swagger gotten us? We are hated by everyone now, and our military are dying senselessly every day. Oh yeah, THAT's what the president is for... strutting around and making noise!

[MarilynBr]

Actually I'm a moderate, and have been all of my 55 years. But the society has shifted so far down a path away from Godly living that I am now a conservative. I'm not the one who has moved, because I'm standing on the same values I always have. It's the society that has moved, and I think that has been much to the detriment of all of us. Pain among people has been greatly increased because being out of step with God has its consequences. Not because God is punishing us, but because sin carries its own consequences. I like Bush, and I will vote for him again. I'm glad he is our President.

[yadgirl]

I'd like to have the definition of conservative.
I'm not pro-Bush and I'm not anti-gay, but I still think of myself as conservative.

I am Pro-people, pro-mindful with a Christian background but the ability to see the difference between a discriminating mind and plain ole prejudice. There is a difference, ya know.

yad

[bewitched]

I go to church every Sunday. I've taught Sunday School classes for both children and adults. I tithe 10% of my income to my church. Each year I try to make two quilts to donate to our church relief fund. I pray every single day multiple times. We say grace before we eat a meal and I say prayers with my son before he goes to bed at night. I've read the Bible several times and get a lot of comfort from it. I have packed cookies for soldiers in Iraq. I have sent cards to those who have lost family members on Sept. 11.

I have also been to 3 commitment ceremonies for friends of mine who are gay. I was honored to be a "groomsmaid" at one. I have held the hand of a dear friend, and fellow church parishioner, as he died of AIDS. My son sang at his funeral. I have shook my head as I listen to our President lie to us time and time again. He preaches Compassionate Conservatism, but practices something totally different. I have seen him discriminate against those I love and care for. I have seen him send men and women off to fight a battle that is more about personal and family pride then liberation for those oppressed.

Nothing troubles me more then the idea that in order to be a person of faith you have to be rigid and bigoted. I also hate the assumption that if your are religious you must be a conservative republican. The God I worship is a God of LOVE!


Tabitha

[smartykat]

Who or what am I?

To be quite honest I cannot put a label on me...

This is me...

I believe in a higher power
I believe that our life as we know it expands way beyond our senses
I revere life
I give myself to others
I know I am here for a reason

So am I a Liberal or Conservative?
Am I Good or Evil?

kt :gvibes:

[superchickee]

I love all people! Any race, religion, & sex! I am not bothered by your sexuality. :bubbles: :bounce: :grin3: I am not here to judge anybody! I want to live in peacefully harmony with everyone. And I may not agree with what you do, (or Pres. Bush.) STILL BETTER THAN KERRY THOUGH!

[Txsweeper]

When Clinton was president, the US was loved and revered by all civilized countries...

Yes, you are right! Osama loved Clinton and so did Saddam. Not to mention North Korea and China!!!

What about France? You think they loved Americans too?

Clinton hid his head between his knees (or was that Monica's?).

My father, a retired Master-Sergeant with the U.S. Army, Democrat, won't even give Kerry a second look! When America lets "Peace Keepers" into office, they are asking for trouble! 9/11 didn't happen overnight, it happened because President Clinton was lax on American Security. He was too busy in the Oval Office to listen to what he was being told.

President Bush finally got better Medicare coverage to go through for us. No other President could do that. Prescription coverage was a huge issue. If Clinton had had his way, we would have socialized medicine and you want to talk about "Governmental Control"!

Yes, I'm conservative. I believe that you have to spend money to make money. I know, that I for one, am enjoying the best interest rates seen in years! I was able to build a dream home, drive a new vehicle and guess what, I was able to stay home while my husband supports us, the first time ever!

Thank you President Bush! I'm looking forward to the next four years

[ouroboro]

Lisa,
I thought long and hard on how to reply to this post. It seems to me there is a time and a place for everything. I don’t believe this issue should be discussed on these boards, nor should religion, they are to volatile. However I don’t run this website and I can’t tell Brent or the mods what they can or can’t do. There is a good website that has many views similar to yours its here: http://www.freerepublic.com/
This is an issue that is getting national attention, and many people are confused or just want to talk to those like minded so that they have a sounding board.
Unfortunately OLS is not the best place to for that, since many here take a liberal slant to just about every issue.
It makes those who feel differently or who are trying to get feedback from other people shy away and not want to post for fear of being flamed or have to defend themselves on every petty thing. Watch how many responses I get to that statement, LOL!
At first I didn’t feel comfortable discussing the issue, I was unclear on what the issues really were and I was just trying to find answers to my questions—instead I got flame wars and personal attacks—now they will say you asked for it, you should expect that on such an issue, etc, etc,--well rather than take someone’s liberal slant I went in search of the issues and found answers to the questions I had.
Hopefully I can present them here to you in a way that is meant as an opinion; or at least you will have your message settings set so you will get this before they delete it.
--more--

[ouroboro]

Gay Marriage:
1) My religion says its not acceptable to God so I don’t want to support it. In this country there is a separation of church and state, so what your God says can not be held up in a courtroom. I went on www.congress.org and you wouldn’t believe the letters some people wrote. For some the religion answer is good enough for them. But that’s not something our leaders need to hear because they can’t use that argument. Our elected officials need to hear arguments they can use.
2) Its unnatural, we weren’t born that way. This is a valid argument that can be held up in a courtroom. There are no studies that have proven being gay is genetic. Normalcy is functioning according to nature and design, normalcy is not based on public opinion. Society doesn’t have to prove anything, gay activists are the ones attempting to change things, so the burden of proof is theirs. http://www.defendthefamily.com/_docs/resources/9707137.pdf
3) Homosexuality/Heterosexuality are equal—who cares what happens in the bedroom? Everyone should care because they are not equal. Homosexuality has not been proven to be natural; Heterosexuality has: All human beings are born with a reproductive system that is heterosexual by nature. We have sexual feelings only because of the chemical and other processes that are rooted in our procreative heterosexual design. In reality homosexuality is nothing more than same gender conduct among people who are naturally and unchangeably heterosexual. http://www.defendthefamily.com/_docs/resources/9707137.pdf
4) Gay right activists are saying we are taking away their civil rights, is this true? The civil rights amendment was meant for race and sex, not sexual orientation. To compare themselves to the blacks in this country is laughable. Blacks were in separate schools, had separate homes/neighborhoods; had separate drinking fountains in fact; amony many other things and they were treated as property. Show me a majority of gays who have to shop at a different store or pay a different price for items or who are treated like slaves and then we can compare the blacks to gays. And while you’re doing that, once again show me a study or medical report that proves being gay is genetic like being black or being female is. Those who are comparing the two should really pull out their history books and autobiographies—I highly recommend Harriet Tubman & the Underground Railroad. Here’s a good news story for you as well: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040301-115928-8367r.htm
5) Gays say they have no agenda and just want marriage rights. They already have marriage rights, they are choosing not to marry someone of the opposite sex. Once again we are back to the are they born that way or not argument.
6) I’m heterosexual and I see nothing wrong with the way they live, I mean really who cares what goes on in the bedroom as long as it doesn’t affect me? This does affect you. If affects each and every one of us. The courts are deciding and forcing an issue on everyone without taking a vote. Yes, some of those judges are elected officials so technically they could be deciding for you. But an issue with such a profound affect on society should be given to the people to vote. Your rights are being taken away by the courts.
It affects our society as a whole, of course we have no records to look to, only the other countries who have legalized and the few statistics that they have.

Legalizing and redefining marriage will erode the institution of marriage:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1066349/posts

Increased animal sex in Sweden:
http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/english/article177749.ece

Gay marriage will take away free speech rights from religions:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37410

Harmful aspects of a homosexual lifestyle: *This one is really good and touches just about every aspect*
http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles/DaileyGayAdopt.htm
---more---

[ouroboro]

7) Ok, now that I’ve (we've if you agree) established that the gay rights movement has more than marriage rights on their mind and that redefining marriage will hurt our society; what about children? I mean come on, not every heterosexual family is perfect couldn’t some of these children in foster homes across the country be adopted by them? Personally I feel this is rewarding them for a lifestyle choice. They chose a lifestyle that does not produce children, they should have to live with that choice, just like a heterosexual couple who has an operation done. Our nation has proven that a male and female parent is ideal for children:
Importance of Fathers

http://www.childtrends.org/PDF/dadchild.pdf

http://www.childtrends.org/PDF/dadmeaning.pdf

Importance of Marriage

http://www.childtrends.org/PDF/MarriageRB602.pdf



8) So what can I do? Do your own research (this is information I found, I have enough to form my opinion, research enough that you understand the issues and that you have a valid argument for or against) make up your own mind, form your own opinion and write your elected officials so that your voice can be heard. Don’t use the religion argument, they can’t use that. The Supreme Court recognizes minority status only for those groups which 1) have suffered a history of discrimination 2) are powerless to help themselves and 3) are defined by immutable characteristics.
http://www.defendthefamily.com/_docs/resources/9707137.pdf
Until facts are presented that gays are born that way they will never be classified as a minority.

9) I wrote my congressman and they don’t agree with my view? Is there anything else I can do? YES! Keep writing—write to the president, your congressmen/women, your state and local legislators, your state’s governor, every elected official in your state. Most importantly: Vote in November, find out where your elected officials stand on this issue and those that are up for re election, vote for them either for or against whatever your view is.


HTH.

Other helpful websites:
http://www.defendthefamily.com/
http://www.nogaymarriage.com/

http://www.publicagenda.org/issues/overview.cfm?issue_type=gay_rights

Here's the answer to another question I had:
Did the 2000 census really ask sexual orientation?
No it didn't. It did however ask:
Census forms, which began appearing in mailboxes this week, ask households to list a "Person 1." They provide several options to describe other household members’ relationship to "Person 1." One of these options is "unmarried partner." This was first included in the 1990 census to count unmarried heterosexual couples, but since the form also asks the sex of each individual, same-sex couples are also counted.
This year’s count of same-sex partners has not been publicized by the Census Bureau, despite its large budget and commercials aimed at other populations. This is largely because the current form is not expected to give an accurate picture.

There is no category for single LGBT people. The 2000 census does not ask for any information on sexual orientation. NGLTF is seeking consensus to push for a sexual orientation question on the 2010 survey.

Individuals are circulating e-mails saying they will create their own demographic by writing in "gay." Others argue that they don’t want their privacy invaded and warn that the undercounting of gays and lesbians could lead to discrimination.

Census officials say there is no legal basis for counting gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people, and write-in categories will be ignored. Census 2000 includes an unprecedented 63 categories to define the nation’s racial and ethnic make-up.

http://www.gaypeopleschronicle.com/stories/00Mar17.htm

http://cronkite.pp.asu.edu/census/transcript.htm

[Defenderofthefaith]

Those were really great posts, ouroboro! :smile9: That's exactly what I mean.
About 15 years ago I hung around with a male who practiced the homosexual lifestyle(before I was "born again,) I went to "gay" bars, the "gay" pride parade and danced with him. He was good looking(and I also met a few male models who practiced the lifestyle) and I thought I could convert him! The point is, I know some of these people personally and I am sad(as a part of me was then) that they--and their supporters are so misled. I am sad for every sin, period, including my own. I am not bigoted or close-minded. I am not trying to incite anything. I simply want people to know the truth. Not MY truth, but God's Truth as laid down in His Word--the Bible. My God is Love and Mercy and Grace but He is also Holy and Just. Not only is He the God of the cross but the God of the 10 plagues of Egypt and the Flood and the parting of the Red Sea. I have never been a conformist and never will be. The world will not conform me to its mold--as it states in the Bible that a believer should not be conformed. I will continue to hate sin and to love the sinner as best as I can. I know President Bush is not perfect but I honestly believe he is a better president than John Kerry could ever hope to be. Life is not a popularity contest. I am glad I was born in America and can enjoy the privilege of free speech. But even if that changes, I will not be silent about Truth. Truth is not about popularity and is not subjective and never changes. Real truth remains the same... :soapbox:

[Rapunzel676]

Yes, you are right! Osama loved Clinton and so did Saddam. Not to mention North Korea and China!!!

What about France? You think they loved Americans too?

Clinton hid his head between his knees (or was that Monica's?).

My father, a retired Master-Sergeant with the U.S. Army, Democrat, won't even give Kerry a second look! When America lets "Peace Keepers" into office, they are asking for trouble! 9/11 didn't happen overnight, it happened because President Clinton was lax on American Security. He was too busy in the Oval Office to listen to what he was being told.

President Bush finally got better Medicare coverage to go through for us. No other President could do that. Prescription coverage was a huge issue. If Clinton had had his way, we would have socialized medicine and you want to talk about "Governmental Control"!

Yes, I'm conservative. I believe that you have to spend money to make money. I know, that I for one, am enjoying the best interest rates seen in years! I was able to build a dream home, drive a new vehicle and guess what, I was able to stay home while my husband supports us, the first time ever!

Thank you President Bush! I'm looking forward to the next four years

There are so many things wrong here that I don't even know where to start. I just love it when people start making absurd claims like "Osama loved Clinton" without providing a shred of proof. Guess who trained and armed Osama, Txsweeper? I'll give you a hint: It wasn't Bill Clinton. Try Google. The information is out there, if you care to find it. Perhaps you don't. It's much easier to close your eyes and pretend the world is one way when it's just so much more complicated than that.

It's the same way with the whole France thing; if you cared to do some research and find out the truth, you would know that if it hadn't been for France, for example, we'd still be a British colony, and furthermore, to give ourselves sole credit for "saving" France (which is funny in and of itself, since I don't recall anyone giving Poland, for example, crap for being "saved" from the Nazis) is more than a little naïve, considering the fact that we didn't even get involved in World War Two until AFTER we'd already been attacked (sorry Poland and Czechoslovakia, we don't really care if you've been taken over) and furthermore, Russia suffered a FAR greater loss of life than we ever did in the pursuit of "freeing" France (and the rest of Europe). It's so convenient for us to take sole credit for that little accomplishment when in fact we didn't get in until the last minute and didn't suffer near the number of casualties Russia did. One more thing: Don't judge an entire country by the actions of its government. Most French people, once you get out of Paris, are as decent and hardworking as anyone you'll find. Even if they weren't, however, France is sovereign nation and believe it or not, they're as entitled as anyone else to their views and actions. I know it's kind of shocking that not everyone on the entire planet sees things our way, but it's true! In fact, not everyone in this country sees things the same way. People are funny that way. They don't all think alike.

As for North Korea and China, well, let me remind of something: It was Richard Nixon, a staunch Republican who made his name as a red-baiter, who first established opened trade with China. It was Dwight Eisenhower, another Republican, who helped establish the boundaries between North and South Korea, knowing full well the north would remain Communist. A little knowledge of history goes a long way towards understanding the current situation. I know it's easier to blame everything on the nearest convenient Democrat, but I think you'll find that education helps you see things a little more clearly. We may not always be proud of our history, and indeed, there's plenty in it not to be proud of (slavery, for example), but it's absolutely necessary if one wants to understand the complex issues that underlie current events, rather than ignore them and go on, ostrich-like, as if the past were somehow a foreign country.

By the way, Franklin Roosevelt was a peace-loving man. So was Abraham Lincoln. They entered wars out of necessity, and once the battles were fought and over, they were quick to make sure that peace once again reigned. That's the difference between these presidents and the current one. War should never be entered lightly and for its own sake, but with great reverance, after all other avenues have failed. That wasn't the case here.

Socialized medicine, bah! Is the world that binary to you? Does it always have to be all or nothing? Check out the British system for an excellent model of how it's possible to make sure all citizens have health care, whether public or private. Most people who are rabidly opposed to universal health care generally have private insurance. If you or someone you loved ever had to suffer through an illness without it you'd change your tune pretty quickly.

Enough lecturing for today. The moral here: Read, read, read! You might be surprised at what you find! :smile9:

[sallykay]

:gvibes: You can lead a horse to water, Rap, but you can't make 'em drink.

[pattyepye]

The War on Terror is not a war fought only on the soil of the good ole USA. Terrorists are amuck in this world, look at the poor people in Spain. There is not enough Patriot Acts, military force or security measures to stop these assaults. Technology has given greater means for these terrorists to do their dirty work. You can catch all the Osama Bin Ladens and Saddam Husseins you want to, and it won't mean a hill of beans to life on this planet. In fact it will only stir the nest of swarming bees to lash out further.

That doesn't mean to quit trying, that doesn't mean to leave the military at home. But at some date when our own poverty is so great, and our own citizens can't afford medical care, food or housing; you may see rebellion of the masses as all tax revenues have been spent in a futile war that is impossible to win, or even curtail. I would hope to think that a military person, like John Kerry, might have a headstart with worthwhile opinions. I cannot trust a man who would seek parental approval in military issues, and lie about weapons that seem to have disappeared.

These terrorists will always be with us, and always have been. And if they don't have some foriegn sounding name, they might be called something like Timothy McVeigh.

[Tametaz]

Sallykay ever wanted to know the answers to:



Why do same-sex couples want to marry?
Why aren't civil unions enough?
I believe God meant marriage for men and women. How can I support marriage for same-sex couples?
I strongly believe children need a mother and a father.
This is different from interracial marriage. Sexual orientation is a choice.
Won't this create a free-for-all and make the whole idea of marriage meaningless?
What would be wrong with a constitutional amendment to define marriage as a union of a man and a woman?
How could marriage for same-sex couples possibly be good for the American family -- or our country?
Can't same-sex couples go to a lawyer to secure all the rights they need?
Won't this cost taxpayers too much money?
Where can same-sex couples marry today?
What protections other than marriage are available to American same-sex couples?
I agree. Every family deserves equal protections. How can I help?

Check out A pamphlet that answers common questions and concerns.

http://www.hrc.org/Template.cfm?Section=Center&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=17262

[pattyepye]

Since what constitues a person being a conservative, has not been clearly defined in this thread, I am left with mixed impressions.

What constitutes being an American is clearly defined in our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
That being said, it is un-American to.... impose religious values into any public federally funded orgainzation. A 'faith-based' initiative may be un-American if it's purpose is to define beliefs for others.

I could never be a conservative if I had to ignore the pre-determined mandate of separation of Church and State. I could never be a conservative, if I had to deny equal rights to any individuals, be it their choice of same-sex union, or their right to be a vegan.

I think some are conservatives only in expressing their opinion in how the fed spends its money, and really pay little attention to current issues. They only want to pay as few taxes as possible, keep their portfolio happy, and not be bothered on the golf course.

[Veuve-Cliquot]

7) Ok, now we’ve established that the gay rights movement has more than marriage rights on their mind and that redefining marriage will hurt our society; what about children? I mean come on, not every heterosexual family is perfect couldn’t some of these children ... blah blah blah blah blah

Anita Bryant like I need a hole in the head.

[Current]

I don't think that anything has been "established", except that we all have opinions.

[ravengoth]

As I recall from my bible studies, Jesus became angry at a fig tree because it gave him no fruit and the moneychangers in the temple. He KISSED John the Beloved apostle. How can you read the new testament and think this loving soul would condemn gay rights?

[Txsweeper]

Enough lecturing for today. The moral here: Read, read, read! You might be surprised at what you find!

And I too could dredge up decades of history and slam it into your face, but....I was responding to the post that said under Bill Clinton's administration, every civilized country loved America.

Now, care to do your reading on those wonderful years?

[pattyepye]

I really liked Bill Clinton, was impeached, and stuck around. Don't know about his military success, but the economy was great!

ravengoth, I liked your post. I don't think Jesus would be unloving to any person. He did get angry at the money changers, they were making money at the temple, making a profit on what was to be sacrifices to God, not unlike some TV preachers, and commercial Christians just making a buck in the "name of the Lord."

[sallykay]

Sometimes I wonder if I believe in the same God/Jesus as some of these Christians. I'm guessing they think I don't.

And, I can't stand George Bushy, and I believe in equality, so I'm out on this one.

[pattyepye]

Sometimes I wonder if I believe in the same God/Jesus as some of these Christians. I'm guessing they think I don't.

And, I can't stand George Bushy, and I believe in equality, so I'm out on this one.

you're not out on this one sallykay. No one can live your spiritual life for you. That is between you and your God/Jesus, or Higher Power. That is where the problem lies. Many people try to tell us what to believe, how to feel, how to dress, how to fit in. It really should not be that way. We have guaranteed freedoms in this country, if not, we should all fight to make sure that we do.

The thing that worries me, as I recall the last election, and it got down to some precincts in Florida, with just a handful of votes. And it went on and on, and we didn't know the results of that election for months. We must have looked like idiots to the rest of the world. And it was a super slim margin of votes that swung the election. Well now if you are running for president, and YOUR BROTHER is the governor of the state where this ridiculous fiasco occurred, I am sorry, but I can't help but cry "Foal."

You are not out of this one sallykay, you have your vote to speak your voice.
I can't tell you who to vote for, but I'm voting for Senator John Kerry. I'm not saying I am right, but I did talk it over with my Higher Power.

[pattyepye]

how can any one say that the perscription drug bill is better with Bush in office? I beg to differ. Medicine in this country is in dire straights. My family has the bare minimum in health insurance and perscriptions are a fortune. Bush is in tight with the drug companies and health care should be a right of everyone. No one should be denied good health care no matter what. Socialized medicine is the only way to go.

So true pearliemay, it is really ridiculous that many people buy their prescriptions from Canada. Health care is a right for everyone. I don't know about socialized medicine, but the present system is geared to those who can afford premium insurance benefits. Many people who only can find work part time are not even offered insurance. Don't let your family go without needed medicines. I don't know what I could do, but I would be happy to try, pm me if I can help. GB (that means God Bless, not George Bush)

[Rapunzel676]

Patty, my husband works full-time (for the state, no less), and the insurance premiums are so high we can't afford to get coverage for me--and I'm the one with the health problems! So I ended up having to borrow $500 to buy some crappy student insurance. At least now I can afford my meds, although I can't get treatment for my back. Nice system we got here, huh? :worry:

[pattyepye]

Rapunzel, I am so sorry to hear about your situation. I am speechless, and praying for something to say to comfort you. :grouphug:

[LastLaugh]

Increased animal sex in Sweden:
http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/english/article177749.ece

So are you equating homosexuality with bestiality or somehow implying that homosexuality, bestiality and pedophilia are all one and the same?


Legalizing and redefining marriage will erode the institution of marriage:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1066349/posts

Using Stanley Kurtz to back up your viewpoint is like trying to build an edifice on quicksand.

http://www.theagitator.com/archives/005778.php
http://angermanagement.mu.nu/archives/002611.html
http://www.bearstrong.net/warblog/000620.html

[Kathleenob]

I read the Swedish article, and have to say that I have never seen a more ludicrous parallel drawn.

If you don't believe in gay marriage, don't do it. It is really none of anyone's business, except for the 2 people who are making the commitment.

The world would be so much easier to live in if people didn't get all up in other people's business.

People should work on themselves instead of finding things to criticize others about.

[Tametaz]

People should work on themselves instead of finding things to criticize others about.

Well said!! But, it is so much easier for people to look down on others than to see their own faults.

[stinger]

so much for the "republican/conservative only" thread. typical of "liberals". their true fear is you might actually come up with something constructive in a conservative thread; period.

[LastLaugh]

their true fear is you might actually come up with something constructive in a conservative thread; period.
I haven't seen it happen so far.

[advantage2000]

so much for the "republican/conservative only" thread. typical of "liberals". their true fear is you might actually come up with something constructive in a conservative thread; period.

No one had any problem with Conservatives voicing opinions.... I think the problem was more with the EXCLUSIONARY tone of the thread...

But...typical of CONSERVATIVES... if you're not one of them, keep out!

[Txsweeper]

But...typical of CONSERVATIVES... if you're not one of them, keep out!

:nana: :nana: :nana: :nana:


Okay, just joking :laugh: You can come in if you want, but could you at least take your shoes off, looks like you stepped in some poopoo in the yard!!

[advantage2000]

:halo:

[pechuna]

Good one, advantage.

[Txsweeper]

Love you too! :halo:

[c1986goose]

Well, well, well! I have read these posts and it seems that we have come full circle. Were we not discussing this stuff months ago? Well I guess that why we are Americans, because we can agree to disagree. Isn't it exciting how we become loyal to a party, or philosophy and cannot see the other sides view points. (me included) I have really enjoyed this politics forum. I did not realize that some people could be so fervant with their idealogies. I will say that anyone can post on any site anytime and contribute their view point, as long as it is respectful. That is what the moderators tell me. Do not get your feelings hurt because someone does not side with you. Just show them facts and move on. Goose

GBGB....God Bless George Bush...our President.

:smile9: :smile9: :smile9: :smile9:

[MarilynBr]

I'm looking forward to the election being over and George Bush being re-elected. I admire the man for his high moral ethics. He supports the things that I think are essential for the moral recovery of this nation, which is really our most pressing need, even more so than the economy and war.

[advantage2000]

I'm looking forward to the election being over and George Bush being re-elected. I admire the man for his high moral ethics. He supports the things that I think are essential for the moral recovery of this nation, which is really our most pressing need, even more so than the economy and war.

If Dubya is in charge of this country's moral recovery, you'd better get your tickets for the armageddon parties now!

Here's a five-minute google sample of Shrub's "morality":

http://bushwatch.org/bushlies.htm
http://bushwatch.org/awol.htm
http://www.sonofbush.com/
http://www.fair.org/extra/0109/iran-contra.html
http://www.earthside.com/bush-war-crimes.html#anchor183542

[pattyepye]

If Dubya is in charge of this country's moral recovery, you'd better get your tickets for the armageddon parties now!

Here's a five-minute google sample of Shrub's "morality":

http://bushwatch.org/bushlies.htm
http://bushwatch.org/awol.htm
http://www.sonofbush.com/
http://www.fair.org/extra/0109/iran-contra.html
http://www.earthside.com/bush-war-crimes.html#anchor183542

[pattyepye]

If Dubya is in charge of this country's moral recovery, you'd better get your tickets for the armageddon parties now!

Here's a five-minute google sample of Shrub's "morality":

http://bushwatch.org/bushlies.htm
http://bushwatch.org/awol.htm
http://www.sonofbush.com/
http://www.fair.org/extra/0109/iran-contra.html
http://www.earthside.com/bush-war-crimes.html#anchor183542

Duh, no response,

I nominate advantage2000 for the VIGILIANT POSTER OF THE YEAR AWARD.

[yadgirl]

I'm looking forward to the election being over and George Bush being re-elected. I admire the man for his high moral ethics. He supports the things that I think are essential for the moral recovery of this nation, which is really our most pressing need, even more so than the economy and war.

I think the only thing he's really good at is a GRANDE Facade. That's not too hard to pull off, especially when you've practiced covering up a bad addiction for years.

yad

[advantage2000]

Duh, no response,

I nominate advantage2000 for the VIGILIANT POSTER OF THE YEAR AWARD.

Um...thanks?